Monday, April 28, 2008

Many questions, No answers ?????

I have been at a loss as to how to comment on this situation. It reminds me of a exercise we had in a training session once many years ago..... I can't remember the exact senario, but the trauma is the same. Close your eyes and picture yourself as a 5 year old child sleeping in your own bed with your brothers and sisters also asleep in their beds. It is the middle of the night; All of a sudden, you are startled out of your sleep by loud noises. strangers were taking you out of your bed, away from everything you knew. You are placed in a car and driven to a place where a woman was telling this stranger and others, you can no longer go home, your brother and sisters can't come with you because there is not enough room where you are going for everyone. You are then taken by this stranger to the house of another stranger and told this is your foster home and this is where your are going to be living for a while. In a home that you don't know, with a family you don't know. you have no idea where the rest of your family is, and when or if, you will ever see them again..You say, "What have I done?"..... now open your eyes.....This could be what a child experiences when he/she is taken from their home and ordered placed by the courts..You will note, I said "by the Courts" In most states Child and Family Services cannot remove a child from a home on their own. In many states,however, a policeman, if he feels the child is in eminent danger can put the child under protective custody,to be followed up by a Courts Order. But in general the child is ordered placed by a Courts order after a hearing.
The removal of a child from its home, should never be taken lightly. I cannot speak to the Child Welfare Laws from the State of Texas, but the evidence given to a judge must have been overwhelming to order the removal of 400 plus children on grounds of all of them being abused. We will not know what transpires at the court because these are juvenile proceedings closed to the public. In most States, juvenile abuse/neglect cases are proven by a proponderance of the evidence, not beyond a reasonable doubt.....I ramble....stay well...

18 comments:

In_spired said...

Mr. Tap...

You don't know how we have agonized over this same subject. It is an unbelievable situation. Watch and pray...watch and pray..

My heart breaks for the children.

durano lawayan a.k.a. brad spit said...

Hi Tapline,

Are you referring to the Religious sect that was raided in Texas?

The children's blood samples have been taken for DNA testing and the results, as far as I know, are still pending. The evidence I think is hearsay as no admission under oath or signed, has been made about polygamy. Taking the kids then out of something unproven is irregular.

Secondly, if this is part of their religious beliefs, freedom of religion is guaranteed, although the law prohibits polygamy.

I'm no lawyer and all the lawyering I know comes from watching television. But there are some procedures that I think have been implemented in haste. :-) --Durano, done!

Tapline said...

Durano, Thanks for stopping by...., I was referring, in the broader sense in my first part to narrow toward the Texas case as posted. The ramifications of this case is overwhelmingly complex. Notice,,,,I haven't heard anyone mention a criminal complaint against anyone having more than one wife nor sexual assault. I WONDER WHY????? Are there any other religions out there where multiple marriages are practiced, depending on ones ability to support them, I believe????? Stay well..

DD2 aka Debonair Dude said...

Hey Tap ole buddy, jusr stoppin in to say Hi .

It was some exciting day today with the Old Crazt Uncle's mouth running off again, wasn't it?
I got to get busy and write about it.
See you around the blogs

Law and Order Teacher said...

This situation, I fear is unsolvable. The children also I fear, will not recover from this trauma. I wonder what the conclusion will be. This is a tough one. I wonder what caused the authorities to make a move on this group when they did. Judging by the sheer number of people involved they had to know and ignore the goings on. Something doesn't add up. More questions than answers.

WomanHonorThyself said...

but the evidence given to a judge must have been overwhelming to order the removal of 400 plus children on grounds of all of them being abused. ...what a horror..we will slowly learn the sordid details my friend....thanks for posting!

Tapline said...

dd2, Thanks for stopping by...I thought there was a law against Hate speech????Guess it depends.....stay well

L&O Teach, Thanks for commenting....Working with this population for many years. I can't figure it out, more than meets the eye.....

Angel, Thanks for stopping by... The truth will out, maybe.......to many if's stay well....

The WordSmith from Nantucket said...

I don't know enough to make any judgment on this.

Tapline said...

Word, Well spoken, nor do any of us. We listen to the news on this subject daily, but they as with us are not prive to these hearings. the only official words they get is from law enforcement and they are limited in what they are permitted to release. Thanks for stopping by.....stay well....

American Interests.blog said...

I must admit to finding this disturbing as well. like you said Tap, so many questions little if any answers. Either way the poor children...an important post my friend....

Gayle said...

Yes, there are other religions out there, Tap, where both polygamy and pedophilia are very common. Extremist Islam is one of them, but I don't think we're going to hear about any Mosques being raided any time soon.

I heard that the girl who called it in isn't even connected to this sect. She's some kind of nutcase who has called in these types of things before, but because the authorities claim to have found abuse when they raided this sect, they say it doesn't matter anymore who called it in. I think it should matter, because the grounds they used for raiding the place are not valid, and I also think a good lawyer will have a field day with this one.

No way do I go along with the abuse of children in any form, but dragging them out of their homes is also abuse and they need to know for darn sure what the lesser of two evils is before they do such a thing!

crabby old man said...

IT IS A BAD SITUATION ANYWAY YOU LOOK AT IT. ESPECIALY FOR THE REALY YOUNG CHILDREN.FOR SOME OF THE OLDER GIRLS IT MIGHT BE THEIR SALVATION. DO NOT KNOW IF TRUE OR NOT , BUT THE NEWS TODAY TOLD SOME OF THE 13 TO 15 YRS. OLD GIRLS WHERE PG.
HAVE A NICE DAY

Tapline said...

Inspired, Thanks for stopping by. Prayer is about all one can do at this point....

AI, Thanks for coming by Otto. That's my point there are many variables, but in a juvenile hearing, the burden of proof is easier and the rules of evidence are different from a criminal trial. The hearings are also closed. We will see what transpires.

Gayle, Thanks for stopping by. The world changes and we must change with it or things like this happen to force the change. I fear this will be a long drawn out affair. God help the children. They will need more than parents before its finally over. I hope a prayer chain has been initiated by our lady from Texas....
Crabby, I am at a loss over this whole situation. Once a minor has a child, is she not immancipated???? An Immancipated minor????? Some states have a law to that effect others have no immancipation laws on the books. As I said this can really get complicated...I ramble...stay well...

Prison Teacher said...

I laugh when reporters badger the mothers "Have you seen under-aged girls pregnant?" If that were the sole problem then city after city would have entire families torn apart. The inner cities would be decimated and teachers would be thrown in jail for not reporting the widespread teen sex epidemic case by case and how many at planned parenthood would be jailed? How many school nurses would rot in jail for passing out condoms?

That said, while the legality of the situation could prove iffy, I am still all for saving those kids. Don't get me started on why...I'd be typing FOREVER!

In_spired said...

Mr. Tap...

Don't know where you are located in relation to the flooding but I pray that you and your family are safe...

Tapline said...

Prison Teach, Thanks for stopping by and commenting on a very big situatioon. I also am for protecting the children. we'll see as it unravels....stay well...

Inspired, Thanks for your concern. I am not near a flooded area. We got about 2 days of steady not buckets full of rain, My garage didn't even get flooded, I had a french drain put in to help illiviate any water problem and it seems to work ok ...stay well....

Shah Alexander said...

Community contacts can deter child abuse. In large cities, people prefer their privacy not to be interfered.

There are many reasons. No single answer to resolve this problem.

Tapline said...

Shah, Thanks for stopping by....WE will see how things start to develop. I can remember the problems that developed with the Californian mess with child abuse...Lets hope this doesn't end of that way. stay well......