tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446897466778143968.post7995095022807074029..comments2023-08-20T04:31:34.580-05:00Comments on TAPLINE: Thank God, I will not be a party to the Agreement against our militaryTaplinehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00161842191574184492noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446897466778143968.post-40791250215372353522009-01-05T18:51:00.000-05:002009-01-05T18:51:00.000-05:00MUD, I finally am able to get back into this comm...MUD, I finally am able to get back into this comment section......I thought it was permanently broken and I am computer illiterate....Thanks for stopping by. I addressed your point of not breaking the laws of a foreign countries. Unless the services have changed dramatically, The education received by the military on the laws of a particular country were not even broached, let alone briefed and in many instances, military families lived on the local ecomomy. Many attrocities are committed against the military and their families who, have chosen that life. I'm just questioning what a life is worth...stay well....Taplinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00161842191574184492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446897466778143968.post-39045422811539604302009-01-05T11:12:00.000-05:002009-01-05T11:12:00.000-05:00I think it is a wonderful thing that Iraq is final...I think it is a wonderful thing that Iraq is finally able to start governing themselves. This way, there is a glimmer of hope that they will be able to stand up when we leave. As war is ending, it should be expected that doing illegal acts will get you in trouble with the local law if you aren't on duty. This may not be the end of our being there but it is at least the beginning of the end. After 30 years in uniform I have never broken foreign laws on or off duty so a SOFA doesn't worry me. MUD, COL (Ret)MUDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00210979052443058111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446897466778143968.post-79152607503522843732008-11-04T13:57:00.000-05:002008-11-04T13:57:00.000-05:00AI, Thanks for stopping by, and hopefully for the...AI, Thanks for stopping by, and hopefully for the good of the Nation Mac will be our next CIC. I trust him with our military over OB who will not even fund them appropriately,but actually as Barney states cut them 25% in the middle of a war. God how stupid, yet they still vote him in.....I hope the investigations continue about all their involvements in this mess we are in.....stay well....Taplinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00161842191574184492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446897466778143968.post-41635090959639552022008-11-04T05:49:00.000-05:002008-11-04T05:49:00.000-05:00I with you on this Tap, it's an unfortunate agree...I with you on this Tap, it's an unfortunate agreement. I'll be thinking of you guys tomorrow; election day...God blessOttavio (Otto) Marasco https://www.blogger.com/profile/07813984603766878752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446897466778143968.post-66052894949407311232008-11-04T00:19:00.000-05:002008-11-04T00:19:00.000-05:00WHT, I haven't made it to your blog for a couple ...WHT, I haven't made it to your blog for a couple of days....sorry,,,,I think we all should pray and maybe things will change...I have a feeling that it might....First time I've had it.... I think the bankrupting the coal industry and which will increase the cost of electricy is hitting a cord..aAbout time something did....stay well.....Taplinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00161842191574184492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446897466778143968.post-9106402432868096362008-11-03T22:15:00.000-05:002008-11-03T22:15:00.000-05:00Ah, my friend..we are down to the wire..PRAY for o...Ah, my friend..we are down to the wire..PRAY for our Nation please!..hugs!WomanHonorThyselfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17211851365273181636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446897466778143968.post-78194116988905271532008-11-03T09:34:00.000-05:002008-11-03T09:34:00.000-05:00Did you see the Blog over at http://requiemfordiss...Did you see the Blog over at <BR/><BR/>http://requiemfordissent.com/<BR/><BR/>This is why John McCain hasn't got a chance.<BR/>Not when his own base is against himVictor's Voicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03218935432164673263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446897466778143968.post-87259912857051794122008-11-03T02:43:00.000-05:002008-11-03T02:43:00.000-05:00Bob, Thanks for stopping by. I just got through r...Bob, Thanks for stopping by. I just got through reading the comments on "Iraq the Model" and someone advised that the MP signed an Exectutive Order, (if I read it correctly) So it doesn't have to go through the parliment and it is my understanding the provision for ammunity is still intact. I certainly hope so.... We will see....stay well....Taplinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00161842191574184492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446897466778143968.post-38240483998016198882008-11-02T15:28:00.000-05:002008-11-02T15:28:00.000-05:00Any government that does not stand behind their tr...Any government that does not stand behind their troops,is a government not worth spit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446897466778143968.post-28061886778792016972008-11-02T05:46:00.000-05:002008-11-02T05:46:00.000-05:00Tapline:Just stopped by to wish you a peaceful Sun...Tapline:<BR/><BR/>Just stopped by to wish you a peaceful Sunday. Hope all is well...Jackiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10340572418529728537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446897466778143968.post-90353996374290346302008-10-30T18:48:00.000-05:002008-10-30T18:48:00.000-05:00Shah, Thanks for stopping by. Thank you for putt...Shah, Thanks for stopping by. Thank you for putting into words what I have tried to do useing common sense. I do not feel that at this stage of independance the Judicial system has the experience in international Law that would be necessary to administer such law effectively to our troops. As you stated concerning Okinowa, That was how long after WWII that this incident happened and a new SOFA was completed. I'm sure it took years to erase wars devestating effects. I assume Iraq will come around but in Time.....stay well..Taplinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00161842191574184492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446897466778143968.post-11288740297514019632008-10-30T05:42:00.000-05:002008-10-30T05:42:00.000-05:00In fact, legal status of US forces is a critical i...In fact, legal status of US forces is a critical issue between the United States and its allies.<BR/><BR/>In 1990s, a crime committed by an American soldier in Okinawa provoked the debate on this issue. Since then, US-Japanese bilateral agreement was updated.<BR/><BR/>If Iraqi judiciary system is trustworthy, then, the coalition can claim that the regime change is successful. Politically, constitutional democracy has been introduced in Iraq. Are judges and lawyers well trained?<BR/><BR/>If the answer is yes, no problem. If no, this deal is too early.Σ. Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15933909001989916582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446897466778143968.post-69009402362160430432008-10-27T16:33:00.000-05:002008-10-27T16:33:00.000-05:00Z, Thanks for stopping by.....If you read Mustang'...Z, Thanks for stopping by.....If you read Mustang's comments. He is right on as far as reality is concerned. Mainly, the Agreement is gone into because it is something in our interest, but I maintain yes it might be in our interest, but it is also in our interest especially if it includes a mutual defense pact. We should punish our own, with our laws not theirs'. Stay well......Taplinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00161842191574184492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446897466778143968.post-19415685372946653242008-10-27T15:54:00.000-05:002008-10-27T15:54:00.000-05:00Hi, Tapline..and thanks for coming by.It's astonis...Hi, Tapline..and thanks for coming by.<BR/>It's astonishing to realize that WE have lost 4000 Americans in this war trying to bring peace and democracy in Iraq and THEY are telling us when THEY want US to leave, isn't it? And, by the way "we want more control over the Green Zone, and we want you to come back and train IF WE feel WE need it!" <BR/><BR/>WHEN IS AMERICA GOING TO SAY THAT'S ENOUGH??Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15989573357446569262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446897466778143968.post-53066522810647022982008-10-25T16:53:00.000-05:002008-10-25T16:53:00.000-05:00Donald, Thanks for stopping by....I agree with bo...Donald, Thanks for stopping by....I agree with both you and to a certain extent, Mustang. In some countries where we are there at the request of the their governments. Because their laws are contrary to ours in both treatment of prisoners and severity of sentencing, we should insist for any infraction of law Americans will be tried under the UCMJ. The UCMJ under any circumstance is not the most lenient code of law in the world, but it is the one which we are familiar.....stay well...Taplinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00161842191574184492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446897466778143968.post-10618152567341834982008-10-25T14:27:00.000-05:002008-10-25T14:27:00.000-05:00Nice posting, Tapper.You're right, although the ex...Nice posting, Tapper.<BR/><BR/>You're right, although the exertion Iraqi sovereignty's coming to the fore. If we can't get an agreement that protects the troops, then America should leave, and that's unfortunate.AmPowerBloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18236333181889271910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446897466778143968.post-42845341543722363012008-10-24T21:00:00.000-05:002008-10-24T21:00:00.000-05:00Mustang, Thank you so much for the comments on th...Mustang, Thank you so much for the comments on this subject. I realize the full ramifications of this requirement, however I do agree with the point that it is their country and we should get out of there as soon as possible. The overall point I was addressing was the point of payback. It is human nature to feel hate for people who have done wrong to you or yours perceived or actual. Add Female who commit minor offenses, as we see them, into the picture and another element is brought to bear. Probably, as with other countries the American embassy staff of the individual countries would act as caretakers for Americans impounded or jail by that countries courts. <BR/>We have stated in the past that if Iraq did not want us there we would leave. I assume that is still true and that we would be there at their invitation, if that is the cass than we should hold that Americans under orders to that country will fall under the Law of our Military justice system and not Iraqi law. Just my opinion, I understand where you are coming from but I respectfully disagree as it relates to Iraq. As my title indicates I would hate to be a party to this agreement for the reasons I have stated.....stay well....Taplinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00161842191574184492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446897466778143968.post-33298872513954119442008-10-24T15:07:00.000-05:002008-10-24T15:07:00.000-05:00Tap:SOFA agreements exist between the United State...Tap:<BR/><BR/>SOFA agreements exist between the United States and every host-nation where military and/or significant US government agencies exist. If we freed the Iraqis from the despotism of Saddam Hussein, then we must extend to them every aspect of governance of their own country. So at the risk of alienating your commenters, some of whom are my blog-friends, let me offer you this short discussion:<BR/><BR/>1. We do not want our “off duty” military personnel breaking the laws of a host nation with impunity. We do have military personnel “serving time” in Japanese prisons for crimes committed against the Japanese people, found guilty by Japanese courts for committing offenses during their off duty hours. On the other hand, a soldier who accidentally drives his truck into a small store, injuring civilians, SOFA provides immunity from prosecution because at the time of the accident, the soldier was “in the line of duty.” In such cases, the US government is responsible for torts.<BR/><BR/>2. We do not want American lawbreakers to escape prosecution within the jurisdiction in which a crime was committed. If the punishment for serious crimes is severe, it may in fact act as deterrence to serious crime. If we assume the crime was murder, deadly assault, or rape, then the perpetrator should expect capital punishment – just as if he would in his own country.<BR/><BR/>3. If we expect the Iraqi people to develop a law-abiding society, then they likewise have the right of protection from government excesses; search and seizure, for example. The initial, implementing period should cause us concern. As Iraq evolves from a “wild west” environment to an orderly society, our troops must be aware of, and conform to, the SOFA provisions. I envision US forces playing a supporting/subordinate role to Iraqi forces should it become necessary to exercise a search or arrest warrant. The importance of training our forces about the SOFA provisions is paramount.<BR/><BR/>4. What this all suggests (to me) is that US Forces should be withdrawn from Iraq as soon as possible. We should transform “combat forces” to “advisory forces,” and this will relieve them of direct culpability for “operations gone badly.” In such cases, the Iraqis will have operational control, not Americans. We will be simply “observers” rather than participants. Under such conditions, the SOFA should not concern us.<BR/><BR/>5. The SOFA may encourage civilian contractors to terminate operations in Iraq. We do not have such people operating in Japan or Korea; to the extent that they are training Iraqi police, fire, or paramilitary forces, SOFA will protect them. To the extent that civilian contractors violate the law, SOFA will require accountability to Iraqi law.<BR/><BR/>Should it be otherwise?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446897466778143968.post-24422172853615657742008-10-24T11:19:00.000-05:002008-10-24T11:19:00.000-05:00Jennifer, Thanks for stopping by and commenting.....Jennifer, Thanks for stopping by and commenting...I do not know where this process is currently, but I hope our negociators think long and hard about our sacrifice before signing asny such agreement....stay well.....Taplinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00161842191574184492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446897466778143968.post-79160428431919525942008-10-24T00:43:00.000-05:002008-10-24T00:43:00.000-05:00There are obviously different laws for different c...There are obviously different laws for different countries and for good reason. To leave our military at the hands of a Iraqi court would be unfair and a total mockery of justice. If a woman was convicted, they certainly don't have the same rights over there and would be treated differently. Like most of the others, mine opinion is coming straight from my emotions, but to think that men and women who serve our country should be tried in a foreign court, who may or may not have hatred for anything American in their hearts.<BR/><BR/>I've been seeing your comments around everywhere and just had to come and say Hi! Great post! Fight the good fight!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446897466778143968.post-82515781932264660552008-10-23T10:52:00.000-05:002008-10-23T10:52:00.000-05:00What's the chances of a US Military member getting...What's the chances of a US Military member getting a fair hearing in Iraq? ZERO.<BR/><BR/>We did the same thing is Japan, and US Military personnel have starved and died in Japanese jails for minor offenses. On Okinawa, a grown man will literally starve to death on the diet provided by the holding prison in a matter of months... a slow, agonizing death that the US Command can do nothing about because of the SOFA in place. Could it happen? It already has.Tony Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05525644107594362899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446897466778143968.post-70620912560180202502008-10-23T10:34:00.001-05:002008-10-23T10:34:00.001-05:00Nice to see You back on. I say that they might not...Nice to see You back on. I say that they might not get a fair trial by a military court , but sure as hell would not by a Iraq court.crabby old manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14397321763448801871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446897466778143968.post-51507826171369584032008-10-23T10:34:00.000-05:002008-10-23T10:34:00.000-05:00Nice to see You back on. I say that they might not...Nice to see You back on. I say that they might not get a fair trial by a military court , but sure as hell would not by a Iraq court.crabby old manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14397321763448801871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446897466778143968.post-4961381080793977462008-10-23T10:32:00.000-05:002008-10-23T10:32:00.000-05:00I agree with you, Tap, and believe whatever the fa...I agree with you, Tap, and believe whatever the facts may be, that this is wrong! Our government should stand behind our troops, period. If they have done something wrong, then it's our job to see that the punishment is doled out and not to leave it up to a foreign court!Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02540710405153666843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2446897466778143968.post-21662276892659173982008-10-23T04:50:00.000-05:002008-10-23T04:50:00.000-05:00Any response I could make concerning this subject ...Any response I could make concerning this subject would be entirely one of emotionality and most assuredly, uninformed. That's the reason I read you guys...to gain whatever knowledge possible of subjects so far from my realm of expertise. I enjoy reading your thoughts and the informed comments of your following.<BR/><BR/>Just wanted to say "Hi, Tap!" Like you, we'll be away for a few days (though NOT as long as yourself...lol)<BR/><BR/>Take care and God Bless...Jackiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10340572418529728537noreply@blogger.com